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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:20 pm
 


The UN is useless. I really wish the US would get out of it and have them leave New York City after they pay their parking tickets.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:21 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Thanos Thanos:
Kind of difficult not to "collaborate" when you're wildly under-armed compared to the belligerents surrounding you and specifically ordered by some assholes in New York to not even defend yourself, much less make the effort to save the locals around you. As with Karremans, so too with Dallaire in Rwanda. What happened in those places is entirely on the shoulders of the scum in the UN offices, not on the soldiers that they sent over there for their goddamn touchy-feely photo ops. Attempting peace keeping in the middle of an active war zone is a ridiculous joke. :evil:


If I'm charged with protecting 800 innocent people then I'm killing f*cking everyone to protect them and I'd die trying if needed. You give me a company of Marines and I'd have fried Ratko's rectum on a spit.

At the very least I'd forced the SOB to attack me so he'd have to fight a war against people who know how.


Bart most of the times you're just plain fucked up and screwy but sometimes you're fucked up and screwy in all the right ways. R=UP


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:41 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
Thanos Thanos:
Kind of difficult not to "collaborate" when you're wildly under-armed compared to the belligerents surrounding you and specifically ordered by some assholes in New York to not even defend yourself, much less make the effort to save the locals around you. As with Karremans, so too with Dallaire in Rwanda. What happened in those places is entirely on the shoulders of the scum in the UN offices, not on the soldiers that they sent over there for their goddamn touchy-feely photo ops. Attempting peace keeping in the middle of an active war zone is a ridiculous joke. :evil:


If I'm charged with protecting 800 innocent people then I'm killing f*cking everyone to protect them and I'd die trying if needed. You give me a company of Marines and I'd have fried Ratko's rectum on a spit.

At the very least I'd forced the SOB to attack me so he'd have to fight a war against people who know how.


You also didn't have an anti-military rat back home like Jean Chretien who totally deferred everything in the Canadian deployments to Bosnia/Rwanda to the UN. This is why I always supported the US for staying out of anything that would have put the UN in command over American troops or support personnel in any manner. When the chain of command goes back to New York City and those icky assholes in their office by the Hudson River to be debated on endlessly as not to offend bastards like the Russians, it's guaranteed that the guys who get to wear the blue berets are of the lowest consideration and the most likely to get screwed.

BTW, you don't have to look any farther than Chretien and his lifelong Liberal animosity towards the Canadian military as to understand why Canadians in Afghanistan weren't allowed to accept any recognitions from the other Coalition members. That's the unfortunate way Chretien's mind works and our guys got short changed as a result of it.


Not quite. There was a few Bronze Stars awarded to our snipers, but it required "outside" pressure to Chretein in order for them to be awarded.
The rest of your post about Chretein was bang on though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:48 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
The UN is useless.

Yep.
$1:
I really wish the US would get out of it and have them leave New York City after they pay their parking tickets.

Not just the US.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:39 pm
 


I imagine that Thom Karremans has likely received a few white feathers and when I get home and find out his address he'll be receiving one more.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:21 pm
 


BartSimpson BartSimpson:
I imagine that Thom Karremans has likely received a few white feathers and when I get home and find out his address he'll be receiving one more.


Not sure what he was supposed to do, he had a battalion of 370 and no heavy weapons
facing off against an armoured regiment, and no help from the idiots at the UN.

Just confirmation we should stay away from these idiotic ventures in war zones.


My trip to Germany will involve meeting up with a Dutch vet, served in Angola.
I'm sure this topic will come up after a few beers.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:51 am
 


martin14 martin14:
BartSimpson BartSimpson:
I imagine that Thom Karremans has likely received a few white feathers and when I get home and find out his address he'll be receiving one more.


Not sure what he was supposed to do, he had a battalion of 370 and no heavy weapons
facing off against an armoured regiment, and no help from the idiots at the UN.


So?

No one ever said life was fair or easy.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:17 pm
 


All that would have happened would have been that 370 dead Dutch troops would have been added to the list of fatalities along with all the local Bosnian males. The Serbs, or any of the others for that matter, could have cared less about how much media attention they were getting. If committing massacres and atrocities resulted in the other ethnicities leaving the areas that the Serbs had claimed as their own then they were more than willing to do the deed. At that stage media coverage was actually helping them. It showed the others, and the world, what "we are willing to do" to carve out their new state.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:27 pm
 


Thanos Thanos:
All that would have happened would have been that 370 dead Dutch troops would have been added to the list of fatalities along with all the local Bosnian males. The Serbs, or any of the others for that matter, could have cared less about how much media attention they were getting. If committing massacres and atrocities resulted in the other ethnicities leaving the areas that the Serbs had claimed as their own then they were more than willing to do the deed. At that stage media coverage was actually helping them. It showed the others, and the world, what "we are willing to do" to carve out their new state.


Irrelevant. If your orders are to protect innocent people then that's what you do to the fullest extent of your abilities. You don't just surrender the first time your butt is on the line.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:08 pm
 


As a Marine you were backed by massive firepower and an in-depth logistical chain where no needed resource was ever held back from you. You also had the benefit of a command system where you, ultimately, only had to answer to one overall commander. The peacekeepers who went to Bosnia weren't lucky enough to operate under the same conditions you did. They went into those places with the bare limit of basic infantry weapons and a handful of thin-skinned APC's and LAV's that were outfitted with the smallest calibre of cannons. They also, practically every day, had their actions scrutinized, revised, or outright blocked by a series of UN bureaucrats, many of whom were outright inimical to the effort of the troops if not actively supporting the ones who were committing the atrocities.

No offense to you personally, and no disrespect to your own experiences is meant, but as a Marine you never had to face any "to the last man, to the last bullet" situation that you claim the Dutch in Bosnia should have engaged in. You were never alone out there on your assignments, not the way the UN troops in Bosnia were, surrounded by tens of thousands of heavily armed belligerents that had inherited the heavy weapon supplies that used to belong to the Yugoslav army. You never had to worry, if you were pinned down under fire, that a supporting airstrike wouldn't arrive because it had to get approved in some office in New York City first before it could proceed. But the blue helmets did. They went through it every day.

Like I said, with no disrespect to your experiences intended, you really don't have the right to expect other soldiers (in radically different situations from anything you ever went through) to engage in some futile and ridiculous last stand just because you believe it would be the honourable thing to do. :|


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:52 am
 


martin14 martin14:
My trip to Germany will involve meeting up with a Dutch vet, served in Angola.
I'm sure this topic will come up after a few beers.



Well, someone had to be the fall guy, and Lord knows it wasn't going to
be any asshole from the UN.


Money, lawyers, and retarded liberal judges.

Sounds like Canada.


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